The optimal environment for DevOps

This is all cross-functional collaboration, and so the management questions become: What can you do to get out of the way? And how can you make it possible for people that don't normally talk to talk, and under good circumstances? When they hear the vision, or when they hear their direction, you can bring people into working groups, and say to the infrastructure people, how are you going to help developers? Or developers, how are you going to help infrastructure people to do this, right? That is leadership.

Viktor Farcic: But DevOps has been largely a grassroots movement, and leadership hasn't known what to do with DevOps, right?

Kevin Behr: No, management doesn't know what to do with DevOps. They come back after a random meeting and say, "I want three DevOps, give me that! And now we need a VP of DevOps!"

Viktor Farcic: The funny thing is that this isn't even a joke! I've really met one of these "VPs of DevOps...